[MIKETOUHY]

http://radial.wordpr...d-don-meredith/

Think Don was underappreciated dutting his time or not?

[bachslunch]

MIKETOUHY, on 26 July 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

Think Don was underappreciated dutting his time or not?

I think he's a Hall of the Very Good type of QB, with a solid but somewhat short career that had a few excellent seasons. Given that he's a contemporary of John Unitas, Bart Starr, Sonny Jurgensen, Fran Tarkenton, Len Dawson, Roman Gabriel, John Hadl, Jack Kemp, and John Brodie (all of whom I'd rank ahead of him in HoF consideration -- and note that I'm not an advocate of Gabriel, Hadl, Kemp, or Brodie for the HoF), I think he's fairly rated for his time period at short-career-HotVG level.

Had his career lasted longer with more strong seasons (he still seemed to be a quality QB when he retired at age 30), that might be different.

[Citizen]

In 1961, Vince Lombardi offered Dallas any two players on his roster for Meredith. I'm guessing that offer would have expired not long after, but it tells us that Meredith's natural ability and potential at least seemed tremendous.

[Kelly1105]

Had Meredith played for a different coach I think his career would have been much more successful. He suffered under Landry not because of the style of offense but more so from being unappreciated by his coach. Meredith was one of these guys that every now and then needed to hear that his coach had his back and Landry never did that. I not sure if it was because Landry didn't like Meredith's lifestyle or he perceived a lack of commitment but they did not mesh well. One coach in that era that I think he would have excelled under would have been Van Brocklin. I also believe he would have done much better in the AFL. Could you imagine him as the Raiders QB under Al Davis.

[rhickok1109]

Citizen, on 26 July 2010 - 04:49 PM, said:

In 1961, Vince Lombardi offered Dallas any two players on his roster for Meredith. I'm guessing that offer would have expired not long after, but it tells us that Meredith's natural ability and potential at least seemed tremendous.

I'd really like to see a source. I've never heard this story before.

[BD Sullivan]

rhickok1109, on 26 July 2010 - 08:58 PM, said:

I'd really like to see a source. I've never heard this story before.

The linked article doesn't mention Lombardi, but does confirm the story (go to page 5, then scroll to the page on the right):

http://news.google.c...AAAIBAJ&pg=3978,1815090&dq=don-meredith&hl=en

[rhickok1109]

BD Sullivan, on 26 July 2010 - 11:50 PM, said:

The linked article doesn't mention Lombardi, but does confirm the story (go to page 5, then scroll to the page on the right):

http://news.google.c...AAAIBAJ&pg=3978,1815090&dq=don-meredith&hl=en

Thanks for the link, but frankly I'm very, very skeptical. A sportswriter from a rather obscure newspaper quoting "a National Football League man in a position to know" seems like questionable evidence, at best.

[Citizen]

rhickok1109, on 26 July 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:

I'd really like to see a source. I've never heard this story before.

http://books.google....20trade&f=false

[JohnH19]

A little unrelated Dandy Don statistical trivia taken from my 1968 NFL Autograph Yearbook that I found fascinating as a 9 year old and still kind of do today. After the 1967 season Don had completed 999 passes out of 1,999 attempts in his eight year career to that point.

Meredith was the first NFL QB that I ever took a shining to as I was rooting for the Cowboys in the Ice Bowl, which was the first NFL game I ever really sat down and watched, along with my dad and uncle who were both going for the Packers. It's a shame that he retired after the '68 season which was one of his two best, along with '66. He's definitely not a HoFer, though.

[SeanLahman]

MIKETOUHY, on 26 July 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

Think Don was underappreciated dutting his time or not?

No. He was a three-time Pro Bowler and won the Bert Bell award in 1966. Seems like he was appreciated just fine, considering he was a slightly above average quarterback.

Look at the other QBs from the same era. Meredith played at the same time as Unitas, Starr, Tarkenton, Blanda, Namath, Dawson and Jurgensen... all of whom went to the Hall of Fame. He also played at the same time as Daryle Lamonica, Jack Kemp, John Brodie and Roman Gabriel, and I think most would agree all of those guys were better than Meredith. Was he a better QB than Frank Ryan or John Hadl? I guess what I'm getting at is that it's awfully tough to make a case that Meredith was one of the 10 best quarterbacks of his era, so getting 3 Pro Bowl invites and a minor MVP award makes it hard to call him "underappreciated."

The article that Miketouhy links to puts it in the context of other Dallas QBs. Meredith was not in the same class as Staubach or Aikman, obviously. I'm not sure he was significantly better than Danny White. He was probably better than Craig Morton, although that's a tough comparison since Morton played for so long and Meredith's career was much shorter (and Morton spent half of his career with other teams). Too soon to judge Tony Romo, but he's already matched Meredith for Pro Bowls and will pass him in both yards and TDs this year, at age 30.

[Kelly1105]

Too soon to judge Tony Romo, but he's already matched Meredith for Pro Bowls and will pass him in both yards and TDs this year, at age 30.
[/quote]

I think your comparison of Meredith and Romo are faulty from the stand point that Romo plays in more games per season and defenses are much more restricted now than in Meredith's day and as far a Pro Bowls go in Meredith's day players wanted to play in them for the extra cash. Romo if memory serves got to one of his Pro Bowls due to "injuries" of other NFC QBs.

[BD Sullivan]

Meredith received recognition for being a key part of a franchise that was obviously on its way up after some very humble beginnings. He was lucky that the organization and coaching staff was consistent and competent, otherwise he might have been an earlier version of Tim Couch: a top QB talent who gets the hell beat out of him behind a patchwork offensive line of expansion rejects, and never reaches his potential.

[andyhdz]

He's probably under appreciated from Cowboy fans as well. Bob Lilly and Bob Hayes were probably more popular in the 60s than Dandy Don who without MNF would never have had those Lipton Ice tea commercials.

[BD Sullivan]

Here's a good (and lengthy) article from last November that gives some solid insight into Meredith:

http://www.dallasnew...th.39bdd5f.html

[ronfitch]

andyhdz, on 27 July 2010 - 12:22 PM, said:

He's probably under appreciated from Cowboy fans as well. Bob Lilly and Bob Hayes were probably more popular in the 60s than Dandy Don who without MNF would never have had those Lipton Ice tea commercials.

Don't forget his cameo voice-over work on the "Beer Can Named Desire" episode of "King of the Hill" ... Hank wins a contest and the opportunity to win $1 million by throwing a football at a giant Alamo Beer can at halftime. Or, he could let his hero - Don Meredith - throw in his place to win $100,000 for Hank.

[andyhdz]

ronfitch, on 27 July 2010 - 11:06 AM, said:

Don't forget his cameo voice-over work on the "Beer Can Named Desire" episode of "King of the Hill" ... Hank wins a contest and the opportunity to win $1 million by throwing a football at a giant Alamo Beer can at halftime. Or, he could let his hero - Don Meredith - throw in his place to win $100,000 for Hank.

yeah and just like in real life he fails to throw it to the intended target like at the end of '66 championship game.

[SeanLahman]

Kelly1105, on 27 July 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think your comparison of Meredith and Romo are faulty from the stand point that Romo plays in more games per season and defenses are much more restricted now than in Meredith's day and as far a Pro Bowls go in Meredith's day players wanted to play in them for the extra cash. Romo if memory serves got to one of his Pro Bowls due to "injuries" of other NFC QBs.

Fair enough. All I was trying to say is that Romo is in the middle of his career, and Meredith is done with his. Romo is off to a start that suggests he'll end up as a better quarterback, but who knows.

Romo is playing in the same era as Manning and Brady, Favre -- all locks for the HOF -- plus Roethlisberger, McNabb, Warner, and Brees, who have strong cases. Romo has never been in the same class as those guys. And he's probably a notch below Eli Manning and Carson Palmer, too. His rank relative to his contemporaries is about the same as Meredith, I think.

[Bernard Brinker]

BD Sullivan, on 27 July 2010 - 01:07 PM, said:

Here's a good (and lengthy) article from last November that gives some solid insight into Meredith:

http://www.dallasnew...th.39bdd5f.html

Good article. That his teammates have such praise for Meredith speaks volumes. Landry on the other hand... . Steve Perkins old books were good. Do not remember exactly but after a tough loss in 1968 (maybe the GB game around week6)on the planeride back Meredith asked Perkins what Tom Landry thought of him. Perkins thought for a second and said, "he probably wishes you had never been born." Meredith's reply, "that's a bit rough but probably about right."

[26554]

As andyhdz and ronfitch's posts show, Meredith is underrated/under appreciated from the standpoint that his post-playing activities (broadcasting, commercial work, etc.) tend to overshadow what he did on the field.

Alex Karras is another guy who fits in this category. Now, Karras had a very nice career overall and definitely has a better HOF case than Meredith, but a lot of times when I think of him, the first thing that pops in my head is "Mongo only pawn...in game of life."

Of course, Karras' gambling suspension also seems to overshadow what he did on the field.

[ronfitch]

andyhdz, on 27 July 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

yeah and just like in real life he fails to throw it to the intended target like at the end of '66 championship game.

Dude .... you gave it away!