[Bernard Brinker]

Just saw a quick segment on the death of Jack Tatum on the NBC evening news. No idea on how they decide who rates a death notice on the news and who does not.

I was always a fan of Tatum's. Few have been subject to as much a double standard as Tatum. People who admire the way Ronnie Lott or Night Train Lane played (and talked about) the game can sometimes seem to despise Tatum.

I remember that Jason Cole at Yahoo wrote a fine article on Tatum a few years back (do not know if it is still in his archive).

[james]

I was born in 1967 and I remember watching Jack Tatum as a kid. He is still one of the hardest hitters I've ever seen. I'll never forget that hit on Daryl Stingley. Sam as the hit he put on Sammy White in Super Bowl XI I think it was. You're right about Night Train Lane about people loving him despite his ferocious style of play, but when it comes to Tatum people think he was dirty. Myself, I think he was an aggressive, hard nosed player who if anyone was in his area, he would let them know of his presence.

[coach tj troup]

....at a coaching clinic years ago, one of the guest speakers was john madden. sure there is a bias, yet the stories madden told on the "assassin" were entertaining, and informative. no matter what level you played at, every safety knew and respected how hard he hit, how well he tackled, and though not mentioned enough how well he defended the deep pass. madden related a long story about tatum's hit on ron shanklin of the steelers, and how after the hit, shanklin was never the same...maybe overblown, maybe not...but splitting the tape off of a guys riddell's has to be some hit!

[Bernard Brinker]

Looked at a couple of youtube on Tatum's hits. Did not see one which I remember: in a 1972 or 1973 game with KC Tatum layed a violent hit into Ed Podolak. Just a terrible collision. Best one on youtube, one that I did not remember, was the hit on Earl Campbell on the goaline---wow.

Never knew how he was considered as a cover guy, good to know he could cover deep, thanks TJ. Do remember in his prime he was good enough to get some all-pro recognition.

[GreenRider668907]

A couple other Jack Tatum plays that come to mind:

Sept. 24, 1972 - Tatum returns a fumble 104 yards for a touchdown at Green Bay as the Raiders beat the Packers, 20-14. I believe that is still an NFL record.

Jan. 1, 1978 - Tatum puts a tremendous hit on Denver running back Rob Lytle that causes an apparent fumble in the AFC Championship game, but the play is quickly (and curiously) whistled dead. The Broncos retain possession and score a key touchdown several plays later. Denver goes on to win the AFC Championship, 20-17.

In Jack Tatum's 1980 book, "They Call me Assasin," he devoted an entire chapter to his former college coach at Ohio State, Woody Hayes. I believe the chapter was titled, "Different Strokes for Different Folks," or something to that effect. Tatum tells about how Hayes recruited him to play for the Buckeyes. Actually as it turned out, Hayes recruited Tatum's mother and seemed more interested in talking to her than to her son the football player. Tatum's mom was so impressed with Hayes' charm that she made the decision for young Jack to attend Ohio State. The whole chapter is full of great tales on Tatum's relationship with Coach Hayes and the Buckeyes. I've yet to read his other two books, but really enjoyed the first one.

I don't think the Raiders were ever more intimidating on defense than they were during the Tatum years (1971-1979).
Here's an article from today on Jack Tatum that includes some mention of the Daryl Stingley incident:


http://www.huffingto...a_n_661059.html

[JWL]

Bernard Brinker, on 27 July 2010 - 08:20 PM, said:

Looked at a couple of youtube on Tatum's hits. Did not see one which I remember: in a 1972 or 1973 game with KC Tatum layed a violent hit into Ed Podolak. Just a terrible collision.

A hit on Podolak was shown on NFLN's "Top 10 Most Feared Hitters" program. Tatum hit Podolak along the sideline in Kansas City Municipal Stadium in 1971 (the only time Tatum played in that stadium). Is that the play you remember or were you thinking of another Tatum on Podolak hit?

[26554]

Bernard Brinker, on 27 July 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

Just saw a quick segment on the death of Jack Tatum on the NBC evening news. No idea on how they decide who rates a death notice on the news and who does not.

I was always a fan of Tatum's. Few have been subject to as much a double standard as Tatum. People who admire the way Ronnie Lott or Night Train Lane played (and talked about) the game can sometimes seem to despise Tatum.

I remember that Jason Cole at Yahoo wrote a fine article on Tatum a few years back (do not know if it is still in his archive).

It's still active. Here's a link:
http://sports.yahoo....=jc-tatum040607

I think the problem some had with Tatum had more to do with the aftermath of the Stingley hit and the impression (fair or not) that he was cashing in on how infamous he had become by coming out with all those "Assassin" books. I'm not sure about the "I tend to think that my best hits border on felonious assault" statement. Was that after the Stingley hit, too? And if it's true that Tatum only attempted to have a meeting with Stingley because he wanted to promote one of those books, then that was really classless.


As far as the hit goes, I found something interesting earlier. In between all the predictable "I'm glad he's dead" and "He's a piece of sh*t"-type posts, someone in this thread (http://www.patriotsp...ead.php?t=57205 on a Patriots message board brought up a good question. If people wanted Tatum to feel guilty over the (legal) hit itself, should Steve Grogan also feel guilty because his high pass led Stingley into it? Speaking of that, has anyone ever heard/read what Grogan's said about the play?

Anyone think there's a case to be made for Tatum as a serious HOF candidate? He seems to be lacking as far as All-Pro and Pro Bowl nods go, but he does rate high on the "level of fame" (some would say infamy) meter and, as the post above show, had plenty of signature plays. From the same era, Cliff Harris, Jake Scott and possibly Mike Wagner (though he spent more time at SS) all seem to have stronger overall resumes, though I'm not sure if any of them should be in the HOF, either.

[26554]

coach tj troup, on 27 July 2010 - 08:05 PM, said:

....at a coaching clinic years ago, one of the guest speakers was john madden. sure there is a bias, yet the stories madden told on the "assassin" were entertaining, and informative. no matter what level you played at, every safety knew and respected how hard he hit, how well he tackled, and though not mentioned enough how well he defended the deep pass. madden related a long story about tatum's hit on ron shanklin of the steelers, and how after the hit, shanklin was never the same...maybe overblown, maybe not...but splitting the tape off of a guys riddell's has to be some hit!

coach, do you think there were times where his going for the "kill shot" was a detriment to the Raiders? I think the Immaculate Reception would be a great example of this. It seems that if Tatum had played the ball there instead of trying to knock out Fuqua, there's a good chance he knocks the pass down and the Raiders win.

[Bernard Brinker]

JWL, on 27 July 2010 - 09:55 PM, said:

A hit on Podolak was shown on NFLN's "Top 10 Most Feared Hitters" program. Tatum hit Podolak along the sideline in Kansas City Municipal Stadium in 1971 (the only time Tatum played in that stadium). Is that the play you remember or were you thinking of another Tatum on Podolak hit?

That is not the one I remember. Perhaps it was a group collision and Tatum not the primary culprit. I believe it was the year after Podolak became famous from the 1971 playoffs. My memory is gruesome: Podolak on the ground twitching. But its an almost 40 year old memory and it may be a little faulty, but it is my memory and I am sticking to it.

[lastcat3]

May Tatum rest in peace. However with the way he responded to what he did to Stingley I personally don't think he deserves any respect as a player.

[Bernard Brinker]

26554, on 27 July 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

It's still active. Here's a link:
http://sports.yahoo....=jc-tatum040607

Anyone think there's a case to be made for Tatum as a serious HOF candidate? He seems to be lacking as far as All-Pro and Pro Bowl nods go, but he does rate high on the "level of fame" (some would say infamy) meter and, as the post above show, had plenty of signature plays. From the same era, Cliff Harris, Jake Scott and possibly Mike Wagner (though he spent more time at SS) all seem to have stronger overall resumes, though I'm not sure if any of them should be in the HOF, either.

Good to know Jason Cole's article still available. On the HoF question: it is enough for me to know in his prime Tatum could play with the best. Whether he is HoF worthy or whether he is the 14th or 39th best saftey of all-time I will leave to others (for some reason these questions have never really interested me). He was a great player who was lucky enough to play on some great teams, college and pro. Tatum will be long remembered.

[Citizen]

Bernard Brinker, on 27 July 2010 - 05:44 PM, said:

No idea on how they decide who rates a death notice on the news and who does not.

In the case of Tatum, his story held interest outside the realm of football -- the Stingley hit, Tatum's lack of public contrition over it, how he styled himself as a villain, etc. You didn't have to be a football fan to be intrigued by him.

His penchant for headhunting did tend to obscure what I think were pretty complete DB skills. He was the lightning rod for either loving or hating the Raiders. RIP.

P.S. Re his 104-yard "fumble" return: I'm sure many of us know that this play came on a dropped lateral that shouldn't have been allowed to be advanced. The league admitted this after the game, but by then the play was in the books.

[bachslunch]

26554, on 27 July 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

Anyone think there's a case to be made for Tatum as a serious HOF candidate? He seems to be lacking as far as All-Pro and Pro Bowl nods go, but he does rate high on the "level of fame" (some would say infamy) meter and, as the post above show, had plenty of signature plays. From the same era, Cliff Harris, Jake Scott and possibly Mike Wagner (though he spent more time at SS) all seem to have stronger overall resumes, though I'm not sure if any of them should be in the HOF, either.

Jack Tatum's postseason honors profile is 0(0AP)/3/none, which is really low for any DB being considered for the HoF. That's in fact Dick LeBeau's profile, and I'm no fan of LeBeau's being in the HoF as a player.

Figure that safeties get little love from HoF voters and you've already got a problem with Tatum. Then consider that safeties as wide-ranging as Cliff Harris, Jim Patton, Johnny Robinson, Bobby Dillon, Donnie Shell, Kenny Easley, Joey Browner, Steve Atwater, Deron Cherry, Eddie Meador, and Leroy Butler can't get a sniff and it's really hard to see any case for Tatum.

[BD Sullivan]

Citizen, on 28 July 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

In the case of Tatum, his story held interest outside the realm of football -- the Stingley hit, Tatum's lack of public contrition over it, how he styled himself as a villain, etc. You didn't have to be a football fan to be intrigued by him.

Plus, footage of both the Stingley and Sammy White (SB IX) hits is readily available and certainly attention-grabbing. Contrast that to when Hall of Famer Steve Van Buren dies--ESPN will give it a brief mention (maybe) before going to commercial, since minimal footage of Van Buren is at their fingertips. Plus, the VAST majority of viewers will just note, "Some Hall of Famer I never heard of died."

[JohnH19]

BD Sullivan, on 28 July 2010 - 12:24 PM, said:

Plus, footage of both the Stingley and Sammy White (SB IX) hits is readily available and certainly attention-grabbing. Contrast that to when Hall of Famer Steve Van Buren dies--ESPN will give it a brief mention (maybe) before going to commercial, since minimal footage of Van Buren is at their fingertips. Plus, the VAST majority of viewers will just note, "Some Hall of Famer I never heard of died."

If only Van Buren had played on a Super Bowl champion or two...

[james]

BD Sullivan, on 28 July 2010 - 12:24 PM, said:

Plus, footage of both the Stingley and Sammy White (SB IX) hits is readily available and certainly attention-grabbing. Contrast that to when Hall of Famer Steve Van Buren dies--ESPN will give it a brief mention (maybe) before going to commercial, since minimal footage of Van Buren is at their fingertips. Plus, the VAST majority of viewers will just note, "Some Hall of Famer I never heard of died."

That is what is sad about the casual fan and the media. Steve Van Buren, one of the All-Time Greats passes away and barely, if any, a mention of his death. Just like you said, the casual fan and majority of viewers will say "Some Hall of Famer I never heard of died." That is the thing that sucks when it comes to NFL history. The casual fan probably hasn't heard of Otto Graham, but Leo Nomellini they would be clueless!

I remember as a kid me aand a buddy of mine liked Tatum a lot because he was mean.

[Bernard Brinker]

Does anyone remember if John Unitas rated an obit on the evening news? Mostly its just actors, singers, and fellow newsmen.

[coach tj troup]

bachslunch, on 28 July 2010 - 08:54 AM, said:

Jack Tatum's postseason honors profile is 0(0AP)/3/none, which is really low for any DB being considered for the HoF. That's in fact Dick LeBeau's profile, and I'm no fan of LeBeau's being in the HoF as a player.

Figure that safeties get little love from HoF voters and you've already got a problem with Tatum. Then consider that safeties as wide-ranging as Cliff Harris, Jim Patton, Johnny Robinson, Bobby Dillon, Donnie Shell, Kenny Easley, Joey Browner, Steve Atwater, Deron Cherry, Eddie Meador, and Leroy Butler can't get a sniff and it's really hard to see any case for Tatum.

....a superb list of the forgotten? underappreciated? in one of my profane, insightful(for me)conversations with dr.z in the 1993 when he asked for my assitance with his campaign to get sf corner jimmy johnson in the hof we went back and forth on what is the responsibility of a safety? my response, being very coy, "whats the coverage" dr.z being an o-lineman, who cares, cannot understand them anyway. still attempting to bait him, "thats the goal" "keep the qb guessing". bottom line, if a qb has trouble figuring out where/what the safety does, how can a writer who never attempted to cover that vast expanse from sideline to sideline? ed reed is deserving and if given the chance with film would show the hof selectors, of course someone would have to wake them up after my explanation. reed plays now, guys like dillon and patton in the 50's were instinctive ballhawks, and masters of the interception. meador was heady, steady, savvy, and made plays; his era wood & wilson. the rest of those mentioned were all superb players. in the sports illustrated football book, dr.z has his all-decade teams. am biased, cause he allowed me to help pick the db's...yet, the simplest response, if a player is not listed, he ain't worthy of discussion. as for van buren. he was a pathfinder...the first back to carry the load. look at his rushing attempts. god bless ya svb!

[james]

Coach and everyone else, why aren't there many Safeties in the Hall? I have not really heard of Jim Patton or Bobby Dillon, but now I want to see on film how great these guys were. Jake Scott was another great Safety who like Tatum, to me is underappreciated.

[coach tj troup]

james, on 28 July 2010 - 04:50 PM, said:

Coach and everyone else, why aren't there many Safeties in the Hall? I have not really heard of Jim Patton or Bobby Dillon, but now I want to see on film how great these guys were. Jake Scott was another great Safety who like Tatum, to me is underappreciated.

..though stats are not the only way to measure a player, bobby dan dillon is the only player in league history to return interceptions over 100 yards six consecutive years. doubt that record will ever been broken. since he returned his ints a long way, he must have had a few; right? from oct.18th, 1953 through oct.14th, 1956 dillon intercepted 29 passes in 34 games. the guy had blazing speed, an adequate tackler, and had no help on a porous run defense. patton on the other hand, was a key component of a top notch defense. small, speedy, intense, capable tackler, and made big play after big play. you do not see him in '58 title game much. unitas read patton, and threw elsewhere ....except for the td toss to berry. patton was never going to be all-decade of the '50's over christiansen, tunnell, lary, and then as the 60's progressed, he is not as good as wood or wilson. he is hall of very good. as for jake scott; he could do it all, his peak though is his first five years. his knee injury in the '74 play-off game against the silver & black limited him the rest of his career.