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#1 26554

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 11:01 PM

There was a recent thread on the board about Mel Hein. (http://www.pfraforum...?showtopic=1644) Anyone have any further observations about him?

Where would you rank Steve Owen on the all-time head coaches' list?

What's the 1956-63 Giants place in NFL history? Did they underachieve or were they just unfortunate to be in their prime at the same time as those great Colts and Packers teams?

Where would you rank Andy Robustelli on the all-time defensive ends' list?

Besides the age/retirements of key players, why else did things go south for Allie Sherman after 1963?

Given the numbers he posted and the overall talent of those Giants' teams, is Fran Tarkenton's 1967-70 period one of the five to ten greatest four-year stretches by a quarterback in NFL history?

Who deserves more credit for turning around the Giants in the 1980s, Bill Parcells or George Young? Are they about equal? How much credit does Ray Perkins deserve?

Is Phil Simms' performance in Super Bowl XXI the most impressive by a qb in Super Bowl? If not, where would you rank it?

Are the 2000 Giants the 'weakest' team to make it to a Super Bowl?

Should Justin Tuck (as the representative of the giants' d-line) have been the MVP of Super Bowl XLII instead of Eli Manning?

Which, if any, of the following should be in the HOF - Charlie Conerly, Jimmy Patton, Del Shofner, George Young, Phil Simms, Ottis Anderson

What are your thoughts on Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning?

Feel free to add more questions...

#2 bachslunch

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 08:21 AM

Which, if any, of the following should be in the HOF - Charlie Conerly, Jimmy Patton, Del Shofner, George Young, Phil Simms, Ottis Anderson


I say definitely yes for Del Shofner and Jimmy Patton. Patton's postseason honors are terrific for a DB of the era at 5(5AP)/5/none, and he's running afoul of the problems all safeties seem to have at HoF voting time. Shofner has two things that may count against him with some voters, having a short career and being a WR, but he has a stunning if brief peak that certainly qualifies him for the HoF every bit as much as Sterling Sharpe and Mac Speedie.

I'd also be fine with George Young being elected, but I'm hard-pressed to defend the "yes" other than to say he was heavily involved with assembling the Giant's teams that won Super Bowls under Bill Parcells.

Neither Charlie Conerly or Phil Simms for me transcend Hall of the Very good status for me. Why them and not, say, John Brodie or Boomer Esiason? The HoF voters also seem to have drawn a line in the sand on the other side of membership for Ottis Anderson, for better or worse, and if RB and QB were not the two most over-represented positions in the HoF, it would make more sense to question that decision. I'm not sold on any of these three, myself.

#3 Bob Gill

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 08:57 AM

>I say definitely yes for Del Shofner and Jimmy Patton. Patton's postseason honors are terrific for a DB of the era at 5(5AP)/5/none, and he's running afoul of the problems all safeties seem to have at HoF voting time. Shofner has two things that may count against him with some voters, having a short career and being a WR, but he has a stunning if brief peak that certainly qualifies him for the HoF every bit as much as Sterling Sharpe and Mac Speedie.

I was going to write the same thing about both of them, so obviously I agree completely.


>Neither Charlie Conerly or Phil Simms for me transcend Hall of the Very good status for me. Why them and not, say, John Brodie or Boomer Esiason?

Again, I agree. All four of the guys mentioned here were very good and sometimes excellent -- perfect candidates for the Hall of Very Good, but that's it.

#4 Todd Pence

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:01 AM

Is Phil Simms' performance in Super Bowl XXI the most impressive by a qb in Super Bowl? If not, where would you rank it?



Simms' SB XXI performance was superb, but there's been a lot of QB's that had phenomenal games in the Super Bowl. I would only rank Simms as ninth. Here's my list.

1. Kurt Warner, XXXIV
2. Steve Young, XXIX
3. Joe Montana, XXIV
4. Joe Montana, XXIII
5. Jim Plunkett, XV
6. Jake Delhomme, XXXVIII
7. Doug Williams, XXII
8. Joe Montana, XIX
9. Phil Simms, XXI

#5 conace21

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:07 AM

I think Simms had a top five performance in the Super Bowl. Three incompletion? Only thing I hold against him is they all the came on 3rd down, so it scuttled some first half drives. If not for the Giants defense with a goalline stand and safety, the Giants may have been two scores behind and the Broncos could have played for the pass and not had to worry about the running game. But, that is why fo

otball is the ultimate team game. And Simms had a perfect second half. No incompletion; 30 second half points. He picked a pretty good time to have the best game of his career.

As for the Howell/Sherman Giants, I think they underachieved a bit, but its not likethe going against Johnny U and Lombardi was easy. With Tittle at QB, they had a more explosive offense to compliment the defense. That helped ease the loss of zlombardi and Landry. Even though Lombardi favored a more conservative style of offense than Tittle ran in NY, I think if Lombardi has been OF with Tittle at QB, the Giants could have beaten anyone.
The team did also have some bad luck, or ill-timed mistakes. The Gifford down that wasn't in 1958. The failed down conversion in 1958the that swung momentum to Baltimore. Giffords concussion in 1960. The two dropped passes that could have been scores in 1961 (sounds strange to say in a 37-0 loss but it was a scoreless tie at the time) The nightmare wind in 1962 that nullified their passing attack. And most devastating, Tittle's knee injury in 1963. The Giants had scored on their first possession with a pass to Gifford, who recalled thinking "Man, we are going to blow these guys out of here." But Tittles knee.injury nullified his mobility and he was picked off five times.
Now bad calls, injuries, dropped passes are all part of the game. Give me a half dozen plays back and the Bills would have won two or three Super Bowls. But it seemed like the G-men were just always a step behind and lost their footing when trying to catch up. When it comes to Lombardi's Packers, there's no shame in losing. (Their is a lityle shame in not scoring a single.point on offense in two games.) At the end of the decade, people were saying Tom Landry's Cowboys couldn't win the big one. They could. They just couldn't win it against Lombardi's Packers. Nobody could. (Except for the 1960 Eagles, but it I guess everyone gets one mulligan.)

#6 Todd Pence

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:39 AM

Simms does have the highest single-game passer rating of any QB to play in the Super Bowl, which shows how heavily weighted the rating system is to completion percentage. Factor out the completion percentage and his game in XXI doesn't look quite as awesome as the others on the list I posted earlier.

#7 coach tj troup

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:45 PM

I say definitely yes for Del Shofner and Jimmy Patton. Patton's postseason honors are terrific for a DB of the era at 5(5AP)/5/none, and he's running afoul of the problems all safeties seem to have at HoF voting time. Shofner has two things that may count against him with some voters, having a short career and being a WR, but he has a stunning if brief peak that certainly qualifies him for the HoF every bit as much as Sterling Sharpe and Mac Speedie.

I'd also be fine with George Young being elected, but I'm hard-pressed to defend the "yes" other than to say he was heavily involved with assembling the Giant's teams that won Super Bowls under Bill Parcells.

Neither Charlie Conerly or Phil Simms for me transcend Hall of the Very good status for me. Why them and not, say, John Brodie or Boomer Esiason? The HoF voters also seem to have drawn a line in the sand on the other side of membership for Ottis Anderson, for better or worse, and if RB and QB were not the two most over-represented positions in the HoF, it would make more sense to question that decision. I'm not sold on any of these three, myself.

....sherman changed the nyg defensive "system" after landry left. why? we all can surmise. nyg allows 35 offensive tds in landry's last 24 gms as defensive coach(58-59). 60 allow 27 in 12, 61 allow 27, 62 allow 34, and 63 allow 36...we all can see where this is going. wellington mara's trades before '61 season were astute, and were part of the division title answer. patton was superb pass defender, and solid tackler...hall of the very good. the nyg defenders that merit consideration for hall of the very good .... erich barnes.& jim katcavage. versatile, and valuable strong side defenders. in past forum's have made my view of shofner known...first hill, then shofner "forced" roll weak zone coverage...not bob hayes. watch film of conerly and then tell me he is hall of the very good. simms, yes.

#8 JWL

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:12 PM

But it seemed like the G-men were just always a step behind and lost their footing when trying to cathedral up.


Funny cell phone auto correct there.

#9 26554

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 12:08 AM

Simms' SB XXI performance was superb, but there's been a lot of QB's that had phenomenal games in the Super Bowl. I would only rank Simms as ninth. Here's my list.

1. Kurt Warner, XXXIV
2. Steve Young, XXIX
3. Joe Montana, XXIV
4. Joe Montana, XXIII
5. Jim Plunkett, XV
6. Jake Delhomme, XXXVIII
7. Doug Williams, XXII
8. Joe Montana, XIX
9. Phil Simms, XXI


I'd add Terry Bradshaw's performance in SB XIII and Drew Brees' performance in SB XLIV somewhere in there. Delhomme played very well overall in SB XXXVIII, but he still didn't have the best qb performance in that game. Plunkett was great in SB XV, but some people still think that Rod Martin was the MVP of that game. I'd drop Plunkett's performance to the 11-15 range.

....sherman changed the nyg defensive "system" after landry left. why? we all can surmise. nyg allows 35 offensive tds in landry's last 24 gms as defensive coach(58-59). 60 allow 27 in 12, 61 allow 27, 62 allow 34, and 63 allow 36...we all can see where this is going. wellington mara's trades before '61 season were astute, and were part of the division title answer. patton was superb pass defender, and solid tackler...hall of the very good. the nyg defenders that merit consideration for hall of the very good .... erich barnes.& jim katcavage. versatile, and valuable strong side defenders. in past forum's have made my view of shofner known...first hill, then shofner "forced" roll weak zone coverage...not bob hayes. watch film of conerly and then tell me he is hall of the very good. simms, yes.


There's also Homer Jones, who came into the NFL around the same time as Hayes, but fell off even before Hayes did. And I think we have to include Otis Taylor. He and Shofner have HOF cases that are at least as strong as Hayes'.

Coach, where you rank Phil Simms' performance in SB XXI?

#10 26554

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 02:28 PM

Super Bowl XXV past its' 20-year anniversary a few months ago. Here's a couple recent looks back at the game -

Mhttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=8837

http://fifthdown.blo...iants-vs-bills/

There's also a book, Super Bowl Monday: From the Persian Gulf to the Shores of West Florida: The New York Giants, the Buffalo Bills and Super Bowl XXV by Adam Lazarus, that's set for release on September 16 -

http://www.amazon.co...09289236&sr=8-1

#11 evan

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:48 AM

Given the numbers he posted and the overall talent of those Giants' teams, is Fran Tarkenton's 1967-70 period one of the five to ten greatest four-year stretches by a quarterback in NFL history?


Tarkenton has said many times that what he was able to do with those Giant teams is his proudest accomplishment of his career. The team was 1-12-1 (including the 72 points given up to the Redskins) the year before Tarkenton got there. Somebody help me with this, but didn't the NFL award the Giants an extra pick in the draft of some kind or another because they couldn't allow such a marquee franchise to be so bad? I think the pick was conditional on the Giants picking a QB, which figured to be Spurrier, but they wound up making the trade for Tarkenton.

I think that 1967-70 run by Tarkenton could be mentioned as one of the greatest stretches as you surmised, perhaps it could also be framed in a discussion of best four-year stretches by QBs of non-playoff teams. Probably Archie Manning from 1978-81 might be in there, Jim Zorn from 1976-79 too. Not too many more come to mind, but I'm sure the Forum could supply some. Others?

#12 SixtiesFan

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 01:22 PM

Tarkenton has said many times that what he was able to do with those Giant teams is his proudest accomplishment of his career. The team was 1-12-1 (including the 72 points given up to the Redskins) the year before Tarkenton got there. Somebody help me with this, but didn't the NFL award the Giants an extra pick in the draft of some kind or another because they couldn't allow such a marquee franchise to be so bad? I think the pick was conditional on the Giants picking a QB, which figured to be Spurrier, but they wound up making the trade for Tarkenton.

I think that 1967-70 run by Tarkenton could be mentioned as one of the greatest stretches as you surmised, perhaps it could also be framed in a discussion of best four-year stretches by QBs of non-playoff teams. Probably Archie Manning from 1978-81 might be in there, Jim Zorn from 1976-79 too. Not too many more come to mind, but I'm sure the Forum could supply some. Others?


You might try to find a copy of "Broken Patterns: The Education of a Quarterback," by Fran Tarkenton as told to Brock Yates. This 1971 book is structured as a diary of the 1970 season. The Giants finished 9-5 that year, missing the playoffs after losing to the Rams the final week.

Tarkenton has a lot to say about his first three years in New York. The Giants, when he joined them in 1967, were the least talented collection of football players imaginable. Even worse, they had given up draft choices to obtain him. Despite this, Tarkenton was able to help make the Giants respectable.

Tarkenton also says the Giants needed a "name" QB or a "hero behind center" and the Vikings were ready to unload Tarkenton.

"Broken Patterns" IMO is one of the better (as told to) football autobiographies.

#13 BD Sullivan

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 01:46 PM

Somebody help me with this, but didn't the NFL award the Giants an extra pick in the draft of some kind or another because they couldn't allow such a marquee franchise to be so bad? I think the pick was conditional on the Giants picking a QB, which figured to be Spurrier, but they wound up making the trade for Tarkenton.


A UPI article on the Tarkenton trade confirms your recollection:

"The Giants had been authorized in the merger agreement...to have the first selection in either the 1967 or 1968 college player draft for the purpose of selecting a quarterback.

"The Giants also had the right to trade that selection for a veteran quarterback and that is the course employed in obtaining Tarkenton."

#14 Bob Gill

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 02:48 PM

>I think that 1967-70 run by Tarkenton could be mentioned as one of the greatest stretches as you surmised, perhaps it could also be framed in a discussion of best four-year stretches by QBs of non-playoff teams. Probably Archie Manning from 1978-81 might be in there, Jim Zorn from 1976-79 too. Not too many more come to mind, but I'm sure the Forum could supply some. Others?

Sonny Jurgensen from 1964-67, or 1964-70 if it's not limited to four years.

#15 Rupert Patrick

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 04:05 PM

>I think that 1967-70 run by Tarkenton could be mentioned as one of the greatest stretches as you surmised, perhaps it could also be framed in a discussion of best four-year stretches by QBs of non-playoff teams. Probably Archie Manning from 1978-81 might be in there, Jim Zorn from 1976-79 too. Not too many more come to mind, but I'm sure the Forum could supply some. Others?

Sonny Jurgensen from 1964-67, or 1964-70 if it's not limited to four years.


Another current QB who has had several solid seasons (2008-10) but his team has not made the playoffs is Matt Schaub of Houston. But I think this season (if there is a season) Houston may make the playoffs, which would make it a moot point.

#16 JWL

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 08:26 PM

I think that 1967-70 run by Tarkenton could be mentioned as one of the greatest stretches as you surmised, perhaps it could also be framed in a discussion of best four-year stretches by QBs of non-playoff teams. Probably Archie Manning from 1978-81 might be in there, Jim Zorn from 1976-79 too. Not too many more come to mind, but I'm sure the Forum could supply some. Others?

Neil Lomax had a good run from 1983-88 with non-playoff teams.

#17 26554

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:15 PM

>I think that 1967-70 run by Tarkenton could be mentioned as one of the greatest stretches as you surmised, perhaps it could also be framed in a discussion of best four-year stretches by QBs of non-playoff teams. Probably Archie Manning from 1978-81 might be in there, Jim Zorn from 1976-79 too. Not too many more come to mind, but I'm sure the Forum could supply some. Others?

Sonny Jurgensen from 1964-67, or 1964-70 if it's not limited to four years.


Another current QB who has had several solid seasons (2008-10) but his team has not made the playoffs is Matt Schaub of Houston. But I think this season (if there is a season) Houston may make the playoffs, which would make it a moot point.



Neil Lomax had a good run from 1983-88 with non-playoff teams.


I think I'd put Tark's run from 1967-70 ahead of these. He didn't have Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell and Jerry Smith like Sonny did for most of that 1964-70 period. He didn't have Wes Chandler or Roy Green, both of whom are solid HOVG candidates. And he didn't have a likely future-HOFer like Schaub does.

He did have Homer Jones but, while Jones put up very impressive numbers from 1966-68, he also basically had a three or four year career. Tarkenton turned in Pro Bowl performances in 1969, when Jones started to decline, and in 1970, after Jones was traded to the Browns. He did have a 1,000-yard runner in Ron Johnson in 1970, but nobody on the Giants had more than 764 yards receiving (Clifton McNeil in '70) in either season.

#18 Jagade

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 12:14 AM

You might try to find a copy of "Broken Patterns: The Education of a Quarterback," by Fran Tarkenton as told to Brock Yates. This 1971 book is structured as a diary of the 1970 season. The Giants finished 9-5 that year, missing the playoffs after losing to the Rams the final week.

Tarkenton has a lot to say about his first three years in New York. The Giants, when he joined them in 1967, were the least talented collection of football players imaginable. Even worse, they had given up draft choices to obtain him. Despite this, Tarkenton was able to help make the Giants respectable.

Tarkenton also says the Giants needed a "name" QB or a "hero behind center" and the Vikings were ready to unload Tarkenton.

"Broken Patterns" IMO is one of the better (as told to) football autobiographies.



I agree with you about "Broken Patterns."

Fran Tarkenten did help the Giants greatly and was one of the best quarterbacks in pro football, if not the best, during his years with the Giants.

The Giants did pick up some other players in 1967 that also helped them improve from their terrible (1-12-1) season of 1966. Vince Costello was a nice pickup from the Cleveland Browns and gave the Giants some solid play at middle linebacker.

Bob Lurtsema was signed as a free agent and was one of the Giants best defensive linemen over the next few years. I think that he helped improve the Giants defense in 1967 even though he was kind of like a rookie (Lurtsema played some minor league football in 1966 and was on the Baltimore Colts taxi squad that year).

Rookies Scott Eaton (defensive back) and Ken Avery (right linebacker) became starters in 1967 and I think that they played well enough. Avery blocked a Gary Collins punt which resulted in a Giants TD in a 38 to 34 upset of the Browns.

Tucker Frederickson and Bill Swain returned from knee injuries which caused them both to miss the entire 1966 season and both Frederickson and Swain were starters in 1967. Frederickson was a key player in the Giants backfield due not only to his running, but also his blocking.

Defensive back Willie Williams returned to the Giants after spending the 1966 season with the Oakland Raiders. Williams was to become a star in the defensive backfield for the Giants in future seasons.

Ernie Koy had his best season at halfback/fullback averaging nearly 5 yards per carry and gaining over 700 yards in 1967.

Homer Jones and Aaron Thomas had great years as pass receivers, probably due in big part to Tarkenton.

Joe Morrison did his usual great job as a runner and receiver.

#19 conace21

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 01:20 PM

I agree with you about "Broken Patterns."

Fran Tarkenten did help the Giants greatly and was one of the best quarterbacks in pro football, if not the best, during his years with the Giants.

The Giants did pick up some other players in 1967 that also helped them improve from their terrible (1-12-1) season of 1966. Vince Costello was a nice pickup from the Cleveland Browns and gave the Giants some solid play at middle linebacker.

Bob Lurtsema was signed as a free agent and was one of the Giants best defensive linemen over the next few years. I think that he helped improve the Giants defense in 1967 even though he was kind of like a rookie (Lurtsema played some minor league football in 1966 and was on the Baltimore Colts taxi squad that year).

Rookies Scott Eaton (defensive back) and Ken Avery (right linebacker) became starters in 1967 and I think that they played well enough. Avery blocked a Gary Collins punt which resulted in a Giants TD in a 38 to 34 upset of the Browns.

Tucker Frederickson and Bill Swain returned from knee injuries which caused them both to miss the entire 1966 season and both Frederickson and Swain were starters in 1967. Frederickson was a key player in the Giants backfield due not only to his running, but also his blocking.

Defensive back Willie Williams returned to the Giants after spending the 1966 season with the Oakland Raiders. Williams was to become a star in the defensive backfield for the Giants in future seasons.

Ernie Koy had his best season at halfback/fullback averaging nearly 5 yards per carry and gaining over 700 yards in 1967.

Homer Jones and Aaron Thomas had great years as pass receivers, probably due in big part to Tarkenton.

Joe Morrison did his usual great job as a runner and receiver.


When it comes to great stretches of play for a non-playoff team, you can look at Sammy Baugh from either 1946-1949 or 1947-1950. Baugh only threw 8 TDs and 17 INTs in '46, but he still led the league in completion percentage. And he threw a combined 47 TD passes in 1947 and 48, so you'd almost certainly have to put him up there.

I'd also look at Marino from 1986-89. He was an All Pro in 1986 and still averaged 26 TDs for the next 3 years. His INTs rose in 1988 and 89 but he was still a top 10 QB.

#20 evan

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 02:52 PM

Is Phil Simms' performance in Super Bowl XXI the most impressive by a qb in Super Bowl? If not, where would you rank it?

I have some thoughts on this question, but first I wanted to share a personal anecdote related to Simms’ Super Bowl performance ...

It was January 1988. I was in Orlando, Florida for taping of ESPN’s new “Super Bowl of Sports Trivia” game show, hosted by Chris Berman and produced by Don Ohlmeyer. I was part of the University of Maryland’s three-man sports trivia team, competing in a 32-team bracket and in the midst of a hotly contested opening-round match with the University of Illinois.

I was our team’s designated go-to guy for football questions, expected to crisply snatch each question out of the air and flawlessly answer. Except it was not going well. Almost all the questions were so easy that the game became not a test of sports trivia as it was a test of how fast you can discern what the question is (almost like a “Name that Tune” of questions, “I can figure out that question in three words.”).

For instance, Drew, our team’s baseball guy, buzzed in after Chris Berman said: “In 1956, Don Larsen …”

BUZZ!

Berman: “Maryland – Drew?!”

Drew: “Dale Mitchell”

Berman: “Correct! The rest of the question was - In 1956, Don Larsen struck out which Dodger for the final out of his World Series perfect game?”

Drew took a calculated risk that he could guess what the question would be, based on questions he had heard in previous games we had watched in the studio audience. It was almost like “counting cards” of trivia questions. If you knew what came before, you might know what’s coming next.

But the questions were flying past, with me buzzing in a micro-second too late each time, leading to some what’s-the-matter-with-you? looks from my teammates. I even had to endure the indignity of Illinois fielding a question whose answer was my childhood hero Fran Tarkenton, as I helplessly looked on, having buzzed in too late again. What could go wrong next?

So with the pressure mounting on me to crush any football question that came up, as soon as I heard Berman say: “In Super Bowl 21, Phil Simms set a Super Bowl record with …” I hit the button so hard the buzzer almost went through the table. The answer had to be Simms’ completion percentage of 88 percent. That was THE Super Bowl record Simms had, right? Here I was, finally about to show the world the breadth of my football knowledge and redeem myself to my teammates.

Although I had buzzed in, Berman was too far along to stop himself, so before I answered he continued to finish the question “… with how many completions in a row? Maryland – Evan?!”

How many completions in a row in a Super Bowl? The question wasn’t about completion percentage? What the &*$#!!

I was flustered, but I tried to gather myself even though I knew I didn’t know the answer. Since I knew Simms completed 22 of 25, I figured he must have had an impressive run of completions for this to rate as a record important enough to be a trivia question.

I blurted out a guess of 16.

“No,” Berman said. “Illinois you can now confer and offer an answer.”

Luckily they had no clue either, and my bad guess probably threw them off enough so their guess wasn’t much better.

“14?” they asked.

“No,” Berman said. “The answer is 10.”

What?!?! Ten measly completions in a row? You know how common that is in the NFL? It’s like saying some kicker made three field goals in a row. Why was such a wimpy record even noticed by ESPN? This is how my moment of glory was evaporating, in an obscure and unimpressive Super Bowl “record”!!!

Epilogue: Although I answered two non-football questions correctly thereafter, we wound up losing that first-round match to Illinois by a very slim margin. Apparently the match was exciting enough to be re-run years later on ESPN Classic, when they would throw a bunch of matches from this series on air in lieu of providing interesting programming.

Invariably when the show would re-run I would get a call from a friend who would say “Hey I’m eating my Big Mac and flipping around the TV and I see this fuzzy-cheeked kid from U. of Maryland with an ‘Evan’ name tag, is that you?”

“Yes,” I muttered, knowing what would come next.

“Thought so … man you butchered that Simms question didn’t you.”

(Click)