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NFL Films material gone from Hulu


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#41 John Turney

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 03:02 PM

The Hule thing was nice, I made sure to get my fill of that when they came out. It seemed to be too good to be true. But, it was likely a deal for a certain amount of time. NFL made money as people watched it, Hulu paid for the rights . . . although maybe it wasn't that much.

So, they could be a new deal with a new company that will have those same titles available for watching.

As far as full games, those who say that is copyright infringement are right. What we researchers also don't always realize is that we are a very small group. We don't watch football from the past for entertainment alone, for us it's work, it's research, it's learning. It's not pretty passing game and high definition. Even some fans here don't enjoy games from the past . . . so not all that post here even care, making the group even smaller. So, with an audience so small, there is no real money to be made from old games anyway. Sad to say, there are fewer and fewer of us who ill care to see 1970s or 1940s games where teams run the ball most of the time. We hardcore researchers would never get bored of a 1974 Eagles Saints game, we could see Manning, Bergy, Gabriel, etc. But 99.9% of the people would not watch that game. There is no market. Therefore, no product.

So, I rejoice in that we had Hulu for a few years and I saw every old title they had. And much of the post-2000 stuff, too. And I hope they will strike a deal with a new company so that can continue. But, even if they don't, we had a great little thing for a few years. I still remember girlfriends of the past. Sure, we broke up, but while it lasted it was great.

#42 Bryan

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:30 AM

The NFL could adopt an iTunes model, or sell a whole season's worth of highlights on DVD at a plausible price. Probably the problem is that they have a lot of inventory, and there is no "artist" who might have more concern with the back catalog than the parent company. The teams themselves are not going to release things. So there they sit.


There was a similar conversation on this forum a couple years ago, and I had the same suggestion as you. With the technology today, NFL Films could make their team season highlight films available online. Like iTunes, you could browse the online catalog, find the film you want, then pay a small fee to download the electronic file to your computer. From there, you could burn the file onto a DVD if you like.

I remember the old NFL Films process, which very well may still be in existence:

1) Request "special order catalog" from NFL Films, which is a 15-page document that lists all available titles
2) Place order with NFL Films...which is $50(!!!) per film regardless of run time
3) NFL Films receives order, has recent hire dig through the film vault to find the 1973 Denver Broncos season highlight film
4) NFL Films recent hire makes DVD copy of original 1973 Broncos film
5) A couple weeks later, DVD arrives at my house
6) Play DVD, notice that the film appears to have had a thermos of coffee poured into the film cannister several years ago, resulting in a DVD copy that has an overpowering Sepia tone and the sound quality is as if one was listening to sounds from a boat while scuba diving, making the DVD virtually unwatchable.
7) Send email to NFL Films customer service, complaining about terrible film quality in spite of $50 fee.
8) Get response from NFL Films, saying the $50 fee mainly is for the "labor" of creating the DVD, not the DVD itself.
9) Terminate business relationship with NFL Films


So, the iTunes model would greatly reduce the "labor" of NFL Films receiving these special orders and makind DVDs. There would be no catalog to send out (its all already online), there would be no one at NFL Films required to find the original film (its all online), there would be no one at NFL Films required to make a copy (you download it yourself), and there is no shipping and handling required.

If NFL Films is concerned that people would abuse this system and in turn sell their own DVDs, then perhaps they could follow the Hulu model...for a yearly fee, a person could have "view only" access to the online NFL Films video library, where they could find whatever films they wanted to see and watch them on their computer. Again, this would require very little "labor" on the part of NFL Films.

#43 Tod Maher

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:34 PM

There was a similar conversation on this forum a couple years ago, and I had the same suggestion as you. With the technology today, NFL Films could make their team season highlight films available online. Like iTunes, you could browse the online catalog, find the film you want, then pay a small fee to download the electronic file to your computer. From there, you could burn the file onto a DVD if you like.

I remember the old NFL Films process, which very well may still be in existence:

1) Request "special order catalog" from NFL Films, which is a 15-page document that lists all available titles
2) Place order with NFL Films...which is $50(!!!) per film regardless of run time
3) NFL Films receives order, has recent hire dig through the film vault to find the 1973 Denver Broncos season highlight film
4) NFL Films recent hire makes DVD copy of original 1973 Broncos film
5) A couple weeks later, DVD arrives at my house
6) Play DVD, notice that the film appears to have had a thermos of coffee poured into the film cannister several years ago, resulting in a DVD copy that has an overpowering Sepia tone and the sound quality is as if one was listening to sounds from a boat while scuba diving, making the DVD virtually unwatchable.
7) Send email to NFL Films customer service, complaining about terrible film quality in spite of $50 fee.
8) Get response from NFL Films, saying the $50 fee mainly is for the "labor" of creating the DVD, not the DVD itself.
9) Terminate business relationship with NFL Films


So, the iTunes model would greatly reduce the "labor" of NFL Films receiving these special orders and makind DVDs. There would be no catalog to send out (its all already online), there would be no one at NFL Films required to find the original film (its all online), there would be no one at NFL Films required to make a copy (you download it yourself), and there is no shipping and handling required.

If NFL Films is concerned that people would abuse this system and in turn sell their own DVDs, then perhaps they could follow the Hulu model...for a yearly fee, a person could have "view only" access to the online NFL Films video library, where they could find whatever films they wanted to see and watch them on their computer. Again, this would require very little "labor" on the part of NFL Films.

They now charge $200, according to a post on the Football Outsiders.

#44 Mark

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:45 PM

They now charge $200, according to a post on the Football Outsiders.



No, it is still $50.00:
http://www.nflfilms.com/specialorders/index.html

#45 Reaser

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:00 PM

No, it is still $50.00:
http://www.nflfilms....ders/index.html


If I'm remember the Football Outsiders post correctly, it was that he contacted NFL Films about getting a full game replay and they were going to charge him $200 for that. As opposed to ordering something from the list on site.
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#46 apbaball

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:07 AM

It does cause financial harm, in that revenue is lost when something is given away that can be sold. If you were a rock star, would you give away your CDs?


If there is money to be made then why aren't they selling their old games either by putting them on DVDs or streaming them over the internet? It is their right to hoard their stuff in vaults if they like but if there was money to be made they would be selling their material.

MLB once tried to get into the business of selling their old radio broadcasts but quickly got out of the business when they found the money wasn't there. They ended up letting one of the guys who initially had uncovered the recordings resume selling them. He is licsensed to sell games played in from 1934 up to year 2000 or something like that.

Either the NFL fears that making old games and films available would take away from their current product (which doesn't say much for the state of the NFL today if true) or they don't want to share period which is their perogative.

The rock star could sell their material on CDs and make money which is why they don't want to give their stuff away. It appears the NFL can't. If there was a revenue stream for this material they would have tapped it years ago.

#47 apbaball

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:13 AM

The Hule thing was nice, I made sure to get my fill of that when they came out. It seemed to be too good to be true. But, it was likely a deal for a certain amount of time. NFL made money as people watched it, Hulu paid for the rights . . . although maybe it wasn't that much.

So, they could be a new deal with a new company that will have those same titles available for watching.

As far as full games, those who say that is copyright infringement are right. What we researchers also don't always realize is that we are a very small group. We don't watch football from the past for entertainment alone, for us it's work, it's research, it's learning. It's not pretty passing game and high definition. Even some fans here don't enjoy games from the past . . . so not all that post here even care, making the group even smaller. So, with an audience so small, there is no real money to be made from old games anyway. Sad to say, there are fewer and fewer of us who ill care to see 1970s or 1940s games where teams run the ball most of the time. We hardcore researchers would never get bored of a 1974 Eagles Saints game, we could see Manning, Bergy, Gabriel, etc. But 99.9% of the people would not watch that game. There is no market. Therefore, no product.

So, I rejoice in that we had Hulu for a few years and I saw every old title they had. And much of the post-2000 stuff, too. And I hope they will strike a deal with a new company so that can continue. But, even if they don't, we had a great little thing for a few years. I still remember girlfriends of the past. Sure, we broke up, but while it lasted it was great.


Speaking of copyrights I do know that John Miley has sold his collection of old radio broadcasts from before 1972 to the Library of Congress. I believe the LOC said radio broadcasts before this time are not subject to copyrights. If anyone should be up on copyrights it would be the LOC.

#48 classic3283

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

It's too bad the NFL and/or Hulu did this. The films helped me out a lot when putting together my snow game list. They were also fun to watch. Most of those team highlights are next to near impossible to find. And you still need to own a VCR if you do happen to find them.
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#49 lastcat3

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:44 PM

Either the NFL fears that making old games and films available would take away from their current product (which doesn't say much for the state of the NFL today if true) or they don't want to share period which is their perogative.


If it was worth the time the NFL would be doing it. But the simple fact is is that hardly anybody is that interested in sports history and the money to be made often doesn't warrant the effort.

Let me put it this way. How many nfl fans do you think could tell you all the Super Bowl winners? If they can't even tell you the winners of all the Super Bowls do you really think they are going to take the time to watch something even less significant in their eyes.

#50 MIKETOUHY

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:16 PM

If it was worth the time the NFL would be doing it. But the simple fact is is that hardly anybody is that interested in sports history and the money to be made often doesn't warrant the effort.


Think that's the reason why the stuff on Hulu was eliminated?

#51 lastcat3

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:24 PM

Think that's the reason why the stuff on Hulu was eliminated?


I think if it really was that good of a business proposition for the nfl the nfl would be doing more to make sure things like hulu continued to be around. What little money to be made off of this stuff might not be worth the hastle of dealing with all the people who look at this stuff for their own personal money making motives.

#52 MatthewToy

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:58 PM

There was a similar conversation on this forum a couple years ago, and I had the same suggestion as you. With the technology today, NFL Films could make their team season highlight films available online. Like iTunes, you could browse the online catalog, find the film you want, then pay a small fee to download the electronic file to your computer. From there, you could burn the file onto a DVD if you like.

I remember the old NFL Films process, which very well may still be in existence:

1) Request "special order catalog" from NFL Films, which is a 15-page document that lists all available titles
2) Place order with NFL Films...which is $50(!!!) per film regardless of run time
3) NFL Films receives order, has recent hire dig through the film vault to find the 1973 Denver Broncos season highlight film
4) NFL Films recent hire makes DVD copy of original 1973 Broncos film
5) A couple weeks later, DVD arrives at my house
6) Play DVD, notice that the film appears to have had a thermos of coffee poured into the film cannister several years ago, resulting in a DVD copy that has an overpowering Sepia tone and the sound quality is as if one was listening to sounds from a boat while scuba diving, making the DVD virtually unwatchable.
7) Send email to NFL Films customer service, complaining about terrible film quality in spite of $50 fee.
8) Get response from NFL Films, saying the $50 fee mainly is for the "labor" of creating the DVD, not the DVD itself.
9) Terminate business relationship with NFL Films


So, the iTunes model would greatly reduce the "labor" of NFL Films receiving these special orders and makind DVDs. There would be no catalog to send out (its all already online), there would be no one at NFL Films required to find the original film (its all online), there would be no one at NFL Films required to make a copy (you download it yourself), and there is no shipping and handling required.

If NFL Films is concerned that people would abuse this system and in turn sell their own DVDs, then perhaps they could follow the Hulu model...for a yearly fee, a person could have "view only" access to the online NFL Films video library, where they could find whatever films they wanted to see and watch them on their computer. Again, this would require very little "labor" on the part of NFL Films.


Ha! Ten years ago I ordered the Steelers '68, '69, and '71 highlight TAPES. I got '68, '69 and '81. With no return instructions.
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#53 Ness

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:34 PM

I came across this with Hulu a while back. Probably around the time this topic was started. I was very disappointed that NFL Films wasn't been solicited via Hulu anymore. I've read some of the replies in this thread and I agree that NFL fans, especially young ones, don't really care and or just aren't aware of the game's history. I'm an NFL Films enthusiast from the breath taking music to the unforgettable material that is constantly shot. I'm in my mid twenties and unfortunately I haven't come across many people that care for NFL Films to my dismay. NFL Films was a fantastic way for me to learn about the game's past, which I enjoy. I'm glad I was able to seek out this place. From what I've observed it seems like I may have found a crowd worth getting into the discussions about the game's distant past.

In the future I hope that NFL Films and their properties find an alternative where people can discover what they've accomplished over all these years. It would be a shame to have those relics just sitting there not seeing the light of day. I can probably still get my hands on a decent amount of material, but it would be a lot easier to have a setup that was similar to how NFL Films and Hulu had.

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#54 evan

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:20 AM

I came across this with Hulu a while back. Probably around the time this topic was started. I was very disappointed that NFL Films wasn't been solicited via Hulu anymore. I've read some of the replies in this thread and I agree that NFL fans, especially young ones, don't really care and or just aren't aware of the game's history. I'm an NFL Films enthusiast from the breath taking music to the unforgettable material that is constantly shot. I'm in my mid twenties and unfortunately I haven't come across many people that care for NFL Films to my dismay. NFL Films was a fantastic way for me to learn about the game's past, which I enjoy. I'm glad I was able to seek out this place. From what I've observed it seems like I may have found a crowd worth getting into the discussions about the game's distant past.

In the future I hope that NFL Films and their properties find an alternative where people can discover what they've accomplished over all these years. It would be a shame to have those relics just sitting there not seeing the light of day. I can probably still get my hands on a decent amount of material, but it would be a lot easier to have a setup that was similar to how NFL Films and Hulu had.

Ness, welcome to the Forum, I think you'll find some great researchers, historians, and educated opinions on virtually any football history topic here. Also bravo to you for seeking out some info on history before your time.

For those in our 40s like myself, NFL Films was a major, major part of learning about the history of this great game. In the 1970s, the Saturday NFL Week in Review and NFL Game of the Week were can't miss TV, as were the MNF halftime highlights. Those were the one and only times you would see these incredible plays that you had imagined from the box scores, many of which you wouldn't see again. You got one chance to see White Shoes Johnson's incredible punt return, then you replayed it in your mind the rest of the year.

When ESPN first started and had virtually no live programming of any note, they put a lot of NFL Films stuff out there - Greatest QBs, Greatest RBs, Follies, Men Who Played the Game, etc. This was around the time VCRs started to become affordable to some degree, so capturing those glimpses of history was paramount as well.

#55 NWebster

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:33 PM

If I'm remember the Football Outsiders post correctly, it was that he contacted NFL Films about getting a full game replay and they were going to charge him $200 for that. As opposed to ordering something from the list on site.


If someone can find the full Giants / Eagles game in the Polo Grounds in 1952, I can find $200.

#56 3243

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:37 PM

I came across this with Hulu a while back. Probably around the time this topic was started. I was very disappointed that NFL Films wasn't been solicited via Hulu anymore. I've read some of the replies in this thread and I agree that NFL fans, especially young ones, don't really care and or just aren't aware of the game's history. I'm an NFL Films enthusiast from the breath taking music to the unforgettable material that is constantly shot. I'm in my mid twenties and unfortunately I haven't come across many people that care for NFL Films to my dismay. NFL Films was a fantastic way for me to learn about the game's past, which I enjoy. I'm glad I was able to seek out this place. From what I've observed it seems like I may have found a crowd worth getting into the discussions about the game's distant past.

In the future I hope that NFL Films and their properties find an alternative where people can discover what they've accomplished over all these years. It would be a shame to have those relics just sitting there not seeing the light of day. I can probably still get my hands on a decent amount of material, but it would be a lot easier to have a setup that was similar to how NFL Films and Hulu had.



I hear ya, Ness. I'd LOVE to be able to freely access the 1974 Houston Oilers highlight film and watch all of the 1966 episodes of "NFL Game Of The Week" (for that one year, according to the NFL FIlms website, they did a GOTW show for EVERY regular season game).

And you're a young person with good taste. Welcome aboard.

#57 John Turney

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:39 PM

If someone can find the full Giants / Eagles game in the Polo Grounds in 1952, I can find $200.

The Wild Man Willey game!

#58 MIKETOUHY

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:21 PM

With all that's being said I still don't understand why the NFL stuff was removed reguardless of how many people watched.

What have they go to loose?

#59 Giants86

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 04:04 PM

Wooo. I thought I was the only one. Now, I havent really posted on here because I kept forgetting too and I forgot I even was registered to this site. So if you dont mind, I'm going to rant a little bit. I went to check out some Super Bowl Highlight films the other day to pay homage to Steve Sabol on hulu and they were all gone. I think its wrong. First off, the NFL could put old games, old NFL yearbooks on NFL.com, youtube, hulu and it doesnt matter. Yes, the NFL is a business but lets face facts. The NFL is a cash cow bonanza. I mean they are not exactly bleeding money and the owners and players sure dont shop at a 5 and dime store, thats for sure.

I think its a shame that this is happening. People DO CARE about the old days of the NFL. Its the people in charge who think we dont. Look all around you. I hate to say it but the NFL and NFL Network can care less about the old days. Dont believe me? Look at NFL Network's schedule during the season and in the offseason. They have nothing on it. You might say, "Well, who cares about the Atlanta Falcons 1980 yearbook or some game of the week from 1978?" Well, look at the alternative. Do you really need to have "The Top 100 players of the NFL?" And then have ever gripping "The Reaction to the top 100 players of the NFL." Its total nonsense. I have a feeling if NFL Network could show paid programming they would instead of the old NFL Films.

If the NFL thinks that classic games are from 2005 to the present, well, there nuts. Steve Sabol, Ed Sabol and NFL Films built the league to what it is today. I actually can name all the Super Bowl winners because of NFL Films and there great Super Bowl Highlight shows, that I have enjoyed since I was a kid. Im 30 yrs. old now and I still enjoy them. I actually tweeted one of the NFL's presidents or executives a while back and they said there was no audience for classic games and I say that is wrong. If theres an audience for Honey Boo Boo there's an audience for classic NFL Films.

I hope I didnt offend anybody by me ranting but I just had to say it. But its happening all over. Look at sitcoms, soap operas, game shows. They are all disappearing or they just dont acknowledge there past. I have feeling if they could, I think every executive who doesnt want old soap operas on the air, old game shows on the air, old sitcoms, old NFL games, old NFL Films etc. would go to President Obama and have him erase or destroy all the old footage. Its like everything from 2005 exist and anything from the 1970s or 1980s doesnt. Thats just my opinion.

#60 NWebster

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:52 PM

The Wild Man Willey game!


That's my point. Everyone has one of those games, right? I mean, I'd probably give my right arm for the Thanksgiving Day Massacre as well.

But the reality is the NFL is a business, they have no vested interest in either celebrating or ignoring their history . . . they are there to make money. If celebrating history made money, they'd do it in a second. The reason NFL Films became what it did was that - at the time - it was largely celebrating the present in the 60's and 70's.